Low powered ARM PC (CuBox, PandaBoard) support (Was Re: Are smartphones any good? (was Re: Oneplus One support))

Sat Oct 4 16:26:21 UTC 2014

Le samedi 04 octobre 2014 à 10:30 -0500, Jonathan Petruska a écrit :
> I wasn't meaning a Pi based phone, I just noticed that a lot of these
> (albeit not the Pi, I know the Android struggles there) support
> Android and use a lot of open components.  I don't think Replicant on
> CuBox(I) or PandaBoard would be too hard, especially with CuBox being
> designed for Android.  Wouldn't be too drastically different from a
> tablet build, Pi would be best because of it's vast support, but I
> don't think anything based on Android has any hopes on that platform.

Note that the Raspberry Pi is still a no-go for freedom as it lacks a
proper free bootloader (even though code and documentation releases may
soon make a difference).

Regarding devices such as the Cubox-i and other Single-Board-Computer,
HTPCs and TV dongles, we just don't think it's worth spending time
porting Replicant on those (we could also add x86 to the list,
especially with 8-10" notebooks). Replicant (like Android in general) is
adapted for and runs best on mobile devices, mainly phones and tablets.
In other scenarios (all the devices mentioned above), we believe
GNU/Linux is still the best shot at having a free system, hence why we
decided to focus on mobile devices with Replicant (for which GNU/Linux
is not adapted yet).

We have nothing against adding a port to a non-mobile-device, but I'm
not going to do that work myself, unless I seriously run out of other
things to do.

> Michael von Glasow <michael at vonglasow.com> wrote:
> 
> >On 04/10/14 02:29, Jonathan Petruska wrote:
> >> I don't think a fully free cellphone is too unthinkable. Has anyone thought of porting to mini arm PCs like the Pi, or has this already been done
> >A proof-of-concept phone has already been built, albeit not with Android:
> >http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/
> >
> >As for Android on the Pi, some attempts have been made, but a lot of 
> >things are still missing:
> >http://www.intorobotics.com/raspberry-pi-android-guides-resources/
> >
> >Of course, there's also the GTA04, for which a port is under active 
> >development.
> >
> >Such projects, however currently have a few hurdles to overcome:
> >
> >- Hardware sourcing: The typical smartphone nowadays is more than just a 
> >Raspberry Pi with a touchscreen, modem and battery. Hardware typically 
> >includes one or two cameras, GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth modules, as well as 
> >a bunch of environment sensors (accelerometer, magnetometer, gyroscope, 
> >proximity, ambient light, temperature, humidity). The challenge is to 
> >find freedom-friendly components, for which free drivers either exist 
> >already or are doable (i.e. documentation of interface and protocols is 
> >freely available).
> >
> >- Momentum: A certain number of people who own and use such a device, 
> >and a certain percentage of them who contribute to development are 
> >necessary for any such project to take off. Without this critical mass, 
> >development won't be able to keep up with the pace of the industry and 
> >the product will be outdated before it is even finished. Openmoko and 
> >the GTA02 aka Freerunner was an example of where this worked quite well, 
> >but IMHO the Freerunner community was just about big enough to get off 
> >the ground.
> >
> >- Cost: With the above constraints on hardware, a relatively low number 
> >of users (i.e. small quantities) and most likely some quality demands, 
> >such a device is likely to be costly. Take the GTA04, which has a 500 to 
> >600 euro price tag just for the mainboard. With fully functional phones 
> >selling for half this price, one does need a lot of enthusiasm to go 
> >down that road.
> >
> >- Form factor: The GTA04, just like its GTA02 predecessor, is quite a 
> >big brick. That probably has to do with hardware sourcing, production 
> >quantities and also cost.
> >
> >So how can we tackle this?
> >
> >- Start with the easier tasks: A ten-inch tablet has fewer issues with 
> >form factor than a phone – its dimensions are largely determined by the 
> >screen size, which takes up the bulk of the space. The next biggest part 
> >is the battery – but the other components are the same size as in a 
> >phone, thus less is gained or lost from shrinking the mainboard or not 
> >doing so. Also a tablet does not need to include all the hardware 
> >components of a phone: a basic tablet can work on WiFi only, thus the 
> >cell modem is not a concern at that time. Once the tablet takes on shape 
> >and has evolved to a certain degree of maturity, cell connectivity can 
> >be tackled.
> >
> >- Plan for a lifecycle: Over time, hardware requirements evolve as 
> >faster processors, more performant graphics and systems with more memory 
> >become the norm. Just having finished one platform doesn't mean work 
> >stops there – rather, this is where work on the next generation begins.
> >
> >- Keep specs stable: We have just established that hardware evolves – 
> >and new hardware requires adaptations in software. However, such 
> >improvements should be as gentle as possible in order to limit the 
> >changes in software needed. Where possible, newly introduced hardware 
> >should be compatible with existing drivers, or at the most require only 
> >smaller modifications to existing drivers, rather than requiring 
> >completely new drivers.
> >
> >- Get a company on board: When it comes to industrial manufacturing 
> >processes and building devices in professional quality, a different set 
> >of expertise than that of a software developer is needed, and the 
> >financial limits of a handful of individuals are easily exceeded. The 
> >founders of Geeksphone one stated that getting their company to the 
> >point at which they started shipping the One (their first device) 
> >required investments which roughly equaled the price of a small house. 
> >The GTA02 benefitted from the involvement of FIC, a manufacturer of 
> >computer parts. The challenge is to find a company who has a commercial 
> >interest in the project.
> >
> >
> >> ; I know there are some built specifically for Android (CuBox, Pandaboard, etc.).  I like the idea of Replicant in the tablet world (If you can roughly consider Replicant/Android on mini PCs akin to tablets).
> >>
> >> msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG wrote:
> >>
> >>> Allan Mwenda <allanitomwesh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> HAHAHA,if only I could. That is a rather gloomy scenario though
> >>> My great-grandfathers did it successfully in 1917, and we can do it
> >>> again.
> >>>
> >>> To bring this thread back on-topic, a fully-functional (i.e., unlike
> >>> OsmocomBB) GSM cellphone whose baseband firmware is available to every
> >>> end user in the form of full source code, compiled using gcc and other
> >>> Free Software tools (no blobs or proprietary build tools), and
> >>> physically reloadable into the phone, again using only Free Software
> >>> tools running under a free OS (GNU/Linux or other Unix), is NOT an
> >>> impossibility, and it is becoming closer to reality with each passing
> >>> day.  The work is being done in a public source repository:
> >>>
> >>> https://bitbucket.org/falconian/freecalypso-sw
> >>>
> >>> Look at the commit history, and see for yourself how steadily this
> >>> project marches forward.  As Che Guevara said, this movement is
> >>> growing stronger with each passing day, it will never stop.
> >>>
> >>> All the talk about legalities is nothing more than a scarecrow.  Does
> >>> your country's police force employ psychics with extremely advanced
> >>> extrasensory perception capabilities?  If not, how are they going to
> >>> divine that the ordinary-looking cellphone in your hand or your pocket
> >>> or your purse lacks some needed regulatory approval if its actual
> >>> radio signal emissions are identical to those from any other correctly
> >>> functioning GSM cellphone?  And how are they going to divine that a
> >>> cellphone that physically looks just like any other (standard
> >>> commercial quality plastics and all) contains firmware which some
> >>> believe might infringe on some copyrights held by some ancient company
> >>> which might not even exist any more?
> >>>
> >>> VLR,
> >>> SF
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Replicant at lists.osuosl.org
> >>> http://lists.osuosl.org/mailman/listinfo/replicant
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> >
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-- 
Paul Kocialkowski, Replicant developer

Replicant is a fully free Android distribution

Website: http://www.replicant.us/
Redmine: http://redmine.replicant.us/
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