Low powered ARM PC (CuBox, PandaBoard) support (Was Re: Are smartphones any good? (was Re: Oneplus One support))

Sat Oct 4 16:48:18 UTC 2014

I would do so myself if I had access to a PandaBoard and a true Linux system.  Many things are starting to shift to being optimized for mobile and PC's are getting shut out.  That's why I've been trying to port Dalvik to Desktop Linux (Ubuntu x86_64, haven't had access to the system in a while). It's also why I have a stack of Android x86 CDs.

Paul Kocialkowski <contact at paulk.fr> wrote:

>Le samedi 04 octobre 2014 à 10:30 -0500, Jonathan Petruska a écrit :
>> I wasn't meaning a Pi based phone, I just noticed that a lot of these
>> (albeit not the Pi, I know the Android struggles there) support
>> Android and use a lot of open components.  I don't think Replicant on
>> CuBox(I) or PandaBoard would be too hard, especially with CuBox being
>> designed for Android.  Wouldn't be too drastically different from a
>> tablet build, Pi would be best because of it's vast support, but I
>> don't think anything based on Android has any hopes on that platform.
>
>Note that the Raspberry Pi is still a no-go for freedom as it lacks a
>proper free bootloader (even though code and documentation releases may
>soon make a difference).
>
>Regarding devices such as the Cubox-i and other Single-Board-Computer,
>HTPCs and TV dongles, we just don't think it's worth spending time
>porting Replicant on those (we could also add x86 to the list,
>especially with 8-10" notebooks). Replicant (like Android in general) is
>adapted for and runs best on mobile devices, mainly phones and tablets.
>In other scenarios (all the devices mentioned above), we believe
>GNU/Linux is still the best shot at having a free system, hence why we
>decided to focus on mobile devices with Replicant (for which GNU/Linux
>is not adapted yet).
>
>We have nothing against adding a port to a non-mobile-device, but I'm
>not going to do that work myself, unless I seriously run out of other
>things to do.
>
>> Michael von Glasow <michael at vonglasow.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 04/10/14 02:29, Jonathan Petruska wrote:
>> >> I don't think a fully free cellphone is too unthinkable. Has anyone thought of porting to mini arm PCs like the Pi, or has this already been done
>> >A proof-of-concept phone has already been built, albeit not with Android:
>> >http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/
>> >
>> >As for Android on the Pi, some attempts have been made, but a lot of 
>> >things are still missing:
>> >http://www.intorobotics.com/raspberry-pi-android-guides-resources/
>> >
>> >Of course, there's also the GTA04, for which a port is under active 
>> >development.
>> >
>> >Such projects, however currently have a few hurdles to overcome:
>> >
>> >- Hardware sourcing: The typical smartphone nowadays is more than just a 
>> >Raspberry Pi with a touchscreen, modem and battery. Hardware typically 
>> >includes one or two cameras, GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth modules, as well as 
>> >a bunch of environment sensors (accelerometer, magnetometer, gyroscope, 
>> >proximity, ambient light, temperature, humidity). The challenge is to 
>> >find freedom-friendly components, for which free drivers either exist 
>> >already or are doable (i.e. documentation of interface and protocols is 
>> >freely available).
>> >
>> >- Momentum: A certain number of people who own and use such a device, 
>> >and a certain percentage of them who contribute to development are 
>> >necessary for any such project to take off. Without this critical mass, 
>> >development won't be able to keep up with the pace of the industry and 
>> >the product will be outdated before it is even finished. Openmoko and 
>> >the GTA02 aka Freerunner was an example of where this worked quite well, 
>> >but IMHO the Freerunner community was just about big enough to get off 
>> >the ground.
>> >
>> >- Cost: With the above constraints on hardware, a relatively low number 
>> >of users (i.e. small quantities) and most likely some quality demands, 
>> >such a device is likely to be costly. Take the GTA04, which has a 500 to 
>> >600 euro price tag just for the mainboard. With fully functional phones 
>> >selling for half this price, one does need a lot of enthusiasm to go 
>> >down that road.
>> >
>> >- Form factor: The GTA04, just like its GTA02 predecessor, is quite a 
>> >big brick. That probably has to do with hardware sourcing, production 
>> >quantities and also cost.
>> >
>> >So how can we tackle this?
>> >
>> >- Start with the easier tasks: A ten-inch tablet has fewer issues with 
>> >form factor than a phone – its dimensions are largely determined by the 
>> >screen size, which takes up the bulk of the space. The next biggest part 
>> >is the battery – but the other components are the same size as in a 
>> >phone, thus less is gained or lost from shrinking the mainboard or not 
>> >doing so. Also a tablet does not need to include all the hardware 
>> >components of a phone: a basic tablet can work on WiFi only, thus the 
>> >cell modem is not a concern at that time. Once the tablet takes on shape 
>> >and has evolved to a certain degree of maturity, cell connectivity can 
>> >be tackled.
>> >
>> >- Plan for a lifecycle: Over time, hardware requirements evolve as 
>> >faster processors, more performant graphics and systems with more memory 
>> >become the norm. Just having finished one platform doesn't mean work 
>> >stops there – rather, this is where work on the next generation begins.
>> >
>> >- Keep specs stable: We have just established that hardware evolves – 
>> >and new hardware requires adaptations in software. However, such 
>> >improvements should be as gentle as possible in order to limit the 
>> >changes in software needed. Where possible, newly introduced hardware 
>> >should be compatible with existing drivers, or at the most require only 
>> >smaller modifications to existing drivers, rather than requiring 
>> >completely new drivers.
>> >
>> >- Get a company on board: When it comes to industrial manufacturing 
>> >processes and building devices in professional quality, a different set 
>> >of expertise than that of a software developer is needed, and the 
>> >financial limits of a handful of individuals are easily exceeded. The 
>> >founders of Geeksphone one stated that getting their company to the 
>> >point at which they started shipping the One (their first device) 
>> >required investments which roughly equaled the price of a small house. 
>> >The GTA02 benefitted from the involvement of FIC, a manufacturer of 
>> >computer parts. The challenge is to find a company who has a commercial 
>> >interest in the project.
>> >
>> >
>> >> ; I know there are some built specifically for Android (CuBox, Pandaboard, etc.).  I like the idea of Replicant in the tablet world (If you can roughly consider Replicant/Android on mini PCs akin to tablets).
>> >>
>> >> msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Allan Mwenda <allanitomwesh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> HAHAHA,if only I could. That is a rather gloomy scenario though
>> >>> My great-grandfathers did it successfully in 1917, and we can do it
>> >>> again.
>> >>>
>> >>> To bring this thread back on-topic, a fully-functional (i.e., unlike
>> >>> OsmocomBB) GSM cellphone whose baseband firmware is available to every
>> >>> end user in the form of full source code, compiled using gcc and other
>> >>> Free Software tools (no blobs or proprietary build tools), and
>> >>> physically reloadable into the phone, again using only Free Software
>> >>> tools running under a free OS (GNU/Linux or other Unix), is NOT an
>> >>> impossibility, and it is becoming closer to reality with each passing
>> >>> day.  The work is being done in a public source repository:
>> >>>
>> >>> https://bitbucket.org/falconian/freecalypso-sw
>> >>>
>> >>> Look at the commit history, and see for yourself how steadily this
>> >>> project marches forward.  As Che Guevara said, this movement is
>> >>> growing stronger with each passing day, it will never stop.
>> >>>
>> >>> All the talk about legalities is nothing more than a scarecrow.  Does
>> >>> your country's police force employ psychics with extremely advanced
>> >>> extrasensory perception capabilities?  If not, how are they going to
>> >>> divine that the ordinary-looking cellphone in your hand or your pocket
>> >>> or your purse lacks some needed regulatory approval if its actual
>> >>> radio signal emissions are identical to those from any other correctly
>> >>> functioning GSM cellphone?  And how are they going to divine that a
>> >>> cellphone that physically looks just like any other (standard
>> >>> commercial quality plastics and all) contains firmware which some
>> >>> believe might infringe on some copyrights held by some ancient company
>> >>> which might not even exist any more?
>> >>>
>> >>> VLR,
>> >>> SF
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>> >
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>
>-- 
>Paul Kocialkowski, Replicant developer
>
>Replicant is a fully free Android distribution
>
>Website: http://www.replicant.us/
>Redmine: http://redmine.replicant.us/