Low powered ARM PC (CuBox, PandaBoard) support (Was Re: Are smartphones any good? (was Re: Oneplus One support))

Jonathan Petruska bubbly193 at y7mail.com
Sat Oct 4 19:59:04 UTC 2014


I was referring to a GNU/Linux distro fully suited for development, as I've used a large amount of GNU/Linux distros but none were suited for development (GParted Live, Ubuntu 8.04, 11.04, and 11.10 LiveCD, and a Liberté remaster).  Maybe I should specified "development capable GNU/Linux system."

Paul Kocialkowski <contact at paulk.fr> wrote:

>Le samedi 04 octobre 2014 à 11:48 -0500, Jonathan Petruska a écrit :
>> I would do so myself if I had access to a PandaBoard and a true Linux
>> system.
>
>That's exactly where it becomes very obvious that talking about "Linux"
>as an operating system makes no sense at all. Please call it GNU/Linux
>for respect of the GNU project and the ideas it stands for. It also
>avoids useless talks about what is "truly Linux" and what it not. There
>is GNU/Linux and there is Android, which both use Linux as a kernel.
>
>> Many things are starting to shift to being optimized for mobile and
>> PC's are getting shut out.  That's why I've been trying to port Dalvik
>> to Desktop Linux (Ubuntu x86_64, haven't had access to the system in a
>> while). It's also why I have a stack of Android x86 CDs.
>
>Intel chips are making a force entry on the tablet market after they
>drastically lowered their prices. I wouldn't be surprised to see AOSP
>gaining back interest in x86 pretty soon.
>
>> Paul Kocialkowski <contact at paulk.fr> wrote:
>> 
>> >Le samedi 04 octobre 2014 à 10:30 -0500, Jonathan Petruska a écrit :
>> >> I wasn't meaning a Pi based phone, I just noticed that a lot of these
>> >> (albeit not the Pi, I know the Android struggles there) support
>> >> Android and use a lot of open components.  I don't think Replicant on
>> >> CuBox(I) or PandaBoard would be too hard, especially with CuBox being
>> >> designed for Android.  Wouldn't be too drastically different from a
>> >> tablet build, Pi would be best because of it's vast support, but I
>> >> don't think anything based on Android has any hopes on that platform.
>> >
>> >Note that the Raspberry Pi is still a no-go for freedom as it lacks a
>> >proper free bootloader (even though code and documentation releases may
>> >soon make a difference).
>> >
>> >Regarding devices such as the Cubox-i and other Single-Board-Computer,
>> >HTPCs and TV dongles, we just don't think it's worth spending time
>> >porting Replicant on those (we could also add x86 to the list,
>> >especially with 8-10" notebooks). Replicant (like Android in general) is
>> >adapted for and runs best on mobile devices, mainly phones and tablets.
>> >In other scenarios (all the devices mentioned above), we believe
>> >GNU/Linux is still the best shot at having a free system, hence why we
>> >decided to focus on mobile devices with Replicant (for which GNU/Linux
>> >is not adapted yet).
>> >
>> >We have nothing against adding a port to a non-mobile-device, but I'm
>> >not going to do that work myself, unless I seriously run out of other
>> >things to do.
>> >
>> >> Michael von Glasow <michael at vonglasow.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On 04/10/14 02:29, Jonathan Petruska wrote:
>> >> >> I don't think a fully free cellphone is too unthinkable. Has anyone thought of porting to mini arm PCs like the Pi, or has this already been done
>> >> >A proof-of-concept phone has already been built, albeit not with Android:
>> >> >http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/
>> >> >
>> >> >As for Android on the Pi, some attempts have been made, but a lot of 
>> >> >things are still missing:
>> >> >http://www.intorobotics.com/raspberry-pi-android-guides-resources/
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course, there's also the GTA04, for which a port is under active 
>> >> >development.
>> >> >
>> >> >Such projects, however currently have a few hurdles to overcome:
>> >> >
>> >> >- Hardware sourcing: The typical smartphone nowadays is more than just a 
>> >> >Raspberry Pi with a touchscreen, modem and battery. Hardware typically 
>> >> >includes one or two cameras, GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth modules, as well as 
>> >> >a bunch of environment sensors (accelerometer, magnetometer, gyroscope, 
>> >> >proximity, ambient light, temperature, humidity). The challenge is to 
>> >> >find freedom-friendly components, for which free drivers either exist 
>> >> >already or are doable (i.e. documentation of interface and protocols is 
>> >> >freely available).
>> >> >
>> >> >- Momentum: A certain number of people who own and use such a device, 
>> >> >and a certain percentage of them who contribute to development are 
>> >> >necessary for any such project to take off. Without this critical mass, 
>> >> >development won't be able to keep up with the pace of the industry and 
>> >> >the product will be outdated before it is even finished. Openmoko and 
>> >> >the GTA02 aka Freerunner was an example of where this worked quite well, 
>> >> >but IMHO the Freerunner community was just about big enough to get off 
>> >> >the ground.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Cost: With the above constraints on hardware, a relatively low number 
>> >> >of users (i.e. small quantities) and most likely some quality demands, 
>> >> >such a device is likely to be costly. Take the GTA04, which has a 500 to 
>> >> >600 euro price tag just for the mainboard. With fully functional phones 
>> >> >selling for half this price, one does need a lot of enthusiasm to go 
>> >> >down that road.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Form factor: The GTA04, just like its GTA02 predecessor, is quite a 
>> >> >big brick. That probably has to do with hardware sourcing, production 
>> >> >quantities and also cost.
>> >> >
>> >> >So how can we tackle this?
>> >> >
>> >> >- Start with the easier tasks: A ten-inch tablet has fewer issues with 
>> >> >form factor than a phone – its dimensions are largely determined by the 
>> >> >screen size, which takes up the bulk of the space. The next biggest part 
>> >> >is the battery – but the other components are the same size as in a 
>> >> >phone, thus less is gained or lost from shrinking the mainboard or not 
>> >> >doing so. Also a tablet does not need to include all the hardware 
>> >> >components of a phone: a basic tablet can work on WiFi only, thus the 
>> >> >cell modem is not a concern at that time. Once the tablet takes on shape 
>> >> >and has evolved to a certain degree of maturity, cell connectivity can 
>> >> >be tackled.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Plan for a lifecycle: Over time, hardware requirements evolve as 
>> >> >faster processors, more performant graphics and systems with more memory 
>> >> >become the norm. Just having finished one platform doesn't mean work 
>> >> >stops there – rather, this is where work on the next generation begins.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Keep specs stable: We have just established that hardware evolves – 
>> >> >and new hardware requires adaptations in software. However, such 
>> >> >improvements should be as gentle as possible in order to limit the 
>> >> >changes in software needed. Where possible, newly introduced hardware 
>> >> >should be compatible with existing drivers, or at the most require only 
>> >> >smaller modifications to existing drivers, rather than requiring 
>> >> >completely new drivers.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Get a company on board: When it comes to industrial manufacturing 
>> >> >processes and building devices in professional quality, a different set 
>> >> >of expertise than that of a software developer is needed, and the 
>> >> >financial limits of a handful of individuals are easily exceeded. The 
>> >> >founders of Geeksphone one stated that getting their company to the 
>> >> >point at which they started shipping the One (their first device) 
>> >> >required investments which roughly equaled the price of a small house. 
>> >> >The GTA02 benefitted from the involvement of FIC, a manufacturer of 
>> >> >computer parts. The challenge is to find a company who has a commercial 
>> >> >interest in the project.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> ; I know there are some built specifically for Android (CuBox, Pandaboard, etc.).  I like the idea of Replicant in the tablet world (If you can roughly consider Replicant/Android on mini PCs akin to tablets).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Allan Mwenda <allanitomwesh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> HAHAHA,if only I could. That is a rather gloomy scenario though
>> >> >>> My great-grandfathers did it successfully in 1917, and we can do it
>> >> >>> again.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> To bring this thread back on-topic, a fully-functional (i.e., unlike
>> >> >>> OsmocomBB) GSM cellphone whose baseband firmware is available to every
>> >> >>> end user in the form of full source code, compiled using gcc and other
>> >> >>> Free Software tools (no blobs or proprietary build tools), and
>> >> >>> physically reloadable into the phone, again using only Free Software
>> >> >>> tools running under a free OS (GNU/Linux or other Unix), is NOT an
>> >> >>> impossibility, and it is becoming closer to reality with each passing
>> >> >>> day.  The work is being done in a public source repository:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> https://bitbucket.org/falconian/freecalypso-sw
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Look at the commit history, and see for yourself how steadily this
>> >> >>> project marches forward.  As Che Guevara said, this movement is
>> >> >>> growing stronger with each passing day, it will never stop.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> All the talk about legalities is nothing more than a scarecrow.  Does
>> >> >>> your country's police force employ psychics with extremely advanced
>> >> >>> extrasensory perception capabilities?  If not, how are they going to
>> >> >>> divine that the ordinary-looking cellphone in your hand or your pocket
>> >> >>> or your purse lacks some needed regulatory approval if its actual
>> >> >>> radio signal emissions are identical to those from any other correctly
>> >> >>> functioning GSM cellphone?  And how are they going to divine that a
>> >> >>> cellphone that physically looks just like any other (standard
>> >> >>> commercial quality plastics and all) contains firmware which some
>> >> >>> believe might infringe on some copyrights held by some ancient company
>> >> >>> which might not even exist any more?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> VLR,
>> >> >>> SF
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
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>> >
>> >-- 
>> >Paul Kocialkowski, Replicant developer
>> >
>> >Replicant is a fully free Android distribution
>> >
>> >Website: http://www.replicant.us/
>> >Redmine: http://redmine.replicant.us/
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.osuosl.org/mailman/listinfo/replicant
>
>-- 
>Paul Kocialkowski, Replicant developer
>
>Replicant is a fully free Android distribution
>
>Website: http://www.replicant.us/
>Redmine: http://redmine.replicant.us/


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